InfoMigrants: In your report for Fondapol [Fondation pour l'innovation politique, a Paris-based think tank, ed. note], you describe Afghan migration to France as a "large-scale phenomenon." What do you mean by that?

Didier Leschi: This "large-scale" reflects as much the number of Afghans present on French soil as the social and cultural repercussions of these significant and unexpected arrivals. In a decade, more than 100,000 Afghans became residents, even though France had no historical, cultural, or religious ties with Afghanistan.

In this sense, these arrivals, for example, are different from the Indochinese immigration that came to France in the 1970s, after the fall of Saigon [which marked the end of the Vietnam War, ed. note] or the victory of the terrible Khmer Rouge [a genocidal and ultranationalist Cambodian movement in the late 1970s, ed.note].

We deliberately sought [this immigration] because of a shared past; many were still French-speaking. And there was already an Indochinese community present in France since the Great War. Ho Chi Minh had been a worker in Marseille and a member of the Communist Party in France.

For Afghanistan, no such historical connection exists, other than an elitist connection with a small portion of the Francophile Afghan population.

In 2014, only 472 asylum applications were filed by Afghans. This figure rose to more than 17,500 in 2023. In the span of around ten years, Afghans have become one of the top 10 nationalities holding long-term residence permits in France. If we add in those who acquired French nationality, and those whose asylum applications were rejected but who remained in the country, the number of Afghans in France exceeds 100,000.

The vast majority of this group of people are young, poorly educated men; many cannot read or write [Dari or Pashto], which aggravates the challenges of integration into French society.

Of course, there are Afghans who have achieved individual success stories. Women, moreover, often have a good level of higher education. I am thinking in particular of those who managed to flee the country after the Taliban seized power in August 2021.

Millions of young Afghan women have been deprived of schooling since the Taliban returned to power in 2021. Not only can Afghan women no longer study beyond primary school, but they have also been expelled from medical schools, where they were training to become midwives or nurses. Most public spaces are also closed to them. Since the summer of 2024, they have been required to cover their faces and bodies, to always be accompanied by a male relative when using public transport, and are no longer allowed to sing or even speak outside their homes.

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IM: How did France become the "favorite" country for Afghans?

D.L: In 2015 [at the time of the significant influx of migrants into Europe, particularly from Syria] there was a window of opportunity to come to France. This opportunity arose when Germany unilaterally suspended the Schengen Agreement [and reinstated controls at certain borders].

Smugglers quickly adapted, organizing transit routes and building new ones. In this context, France became one of the "possible" countries, which it had not been until then. And this possibility was reinforced when Germany changed its policy and granted less international protection to Afghans.

But it was primarily the policy in Northern Europe, particularly in Sweden, that led to a shift toward France. Stockholm granted very little international protection to Afghans. Nearly one in two Afghans who applied for asylum in France during this decade had already been registered as asylum seekers either in Germany or Sweden -- from where they were encouraged to leave and even to stop coming.

Afghan asylum clearly illustrates how individual EU countries' policies on admission or non-admission can influence flows, and how the lack of harmonization of asylum protection rates allows European regulations to be circumvented.

At the same time, countries that had welcomed them in large numbers, such as Pakistan and Iran, have begun implementing more restrictive migration policies and carrying out numerous pushbacks.

IM: France has played a significant role in creating reception programs for Afghan women who are victims of gender apartheid under the Taliban regime. Are there many of them?

D.L: We all know the situation of women in Afghanistan. And, given what they endure, their low proportion among Afghan migrants in Europe, particularly in France, is a matter of concern.

Yet, many women, particularly from sub-Saharan Africa and the Horn of Africa, travel these migration routes. They cross chaotic regions such as Libya and the Sahel. Afghan women, on the other hand, are underrepresented in Central Asian migration flows, even though the countries they pass through (Iran, Pakistan) might appear, relatively speaking, safer than Libya, for example.

There were approximately 3,000 women, adults and minors, registered during the evacuations from Kabul [in August 2021]. Today, women in Afghanistan can only travel when accompanied by a male relative, whether a relative or husband. The low number of Afghan women outside their country also demonstrates that, in the eyes of their male relatives, saving them is not a priority.

The vast majority of those who still leave Afghanistan today do so for economic reasons, not out of ideological antagonism with the rigid Islam that erases and mistreats women.

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IM: In your report, you highlight the problems related to the integration of Afghans in France. How do you explain these problems, and what could be done to address them?

D.L: Low levels of education and difficulties learning the language explain why many Afghans have not found the means to achieve social autonomy and integrate into French society.

Integration is a process of acculturation that takes time and depends on the individual and collective characteristics of immigrants. Added to this are the difficulties in our labor market and our economic development. The construction sector is in decline, the restaurant industry is experiencing many business failures, and our labor needs primarily skilled workers. Caregiving professions require fluency in French and the ability to complete training.

With the French Office for Integration and Immigration (OFII) [the government agency responsible for guiding and housing asylum seekers in France, of which Didier Leschi is the director], we are making a lot of efforts. We are organizing partnerships with companies with the help of associations, such as the Pierre Claver association, which has been doing extraordinary work teaching French for years.

IM: What is France's policy on the deportation of Afghans?

D.L: Germany has found a way to obtain consular passes for people leaving prison. For France, the situation is much more complex; we are not doing enough. The fact remains that anyone who has violated the terms of their welcome must be deported -- just as anyone who is not eligible for asylum.

Afghan offenders should not feel protected. And we offer voluntary return assistance to those whose applications have been rejected. Since 2021, and even before that, Afghans have been asking us to help them return to Kabul.

Since the Taliban's return to power in August 2021, the French government's official position has been to refrain from deporting any Afghans and to maintain no diplomatic relations with Kabul.